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Basically when you were clicking the links above there was a 30% chance you got nothing, a 40% chance you got a weak item, a 15% chance of getting a normal item, 10% for strong, 4% for epic, and 1% for legendary.\n\nThis is a rather rudimentary example of how a loot drop system in games typically work. \n\nThe problem isn't so much that they are using the Skinner box concept to distribute loot to players in a way that is engaging, but rather that they use it as the sole basis for engaging the player and driving things forward in the game.\n\nWhich brings me back to Borderlands.\n\nBorderlands obfuscates a lot of it's problems by just throwing lots of loot at you. To the point that you spend most of your time looking at loot that's dropped off enemies rather than actually fighting enemies. And half the time you don't end up picking up anything anyway since it's not better than what you already have on you.\n\nThis is so that when something finally does show up that you want to take it feels like all that time searching through crates, and killing guys was worth it.\n\nAdditionally you find that you aren't just looking through that loot for a better gun simply to get a better gun, but rather because you need to do it. The game actually requires you to waste your time looting instead of having fun, because you need that better gun to get through the next section of the game and your current equipment is almost useless now apparently.\n\nLet me explain what I mean with an example of something that happened to me. I beat Borderlands 2, had weapons that did pretty good against the final boss. They weren't over powered, but I felt like I was maybe a little ahead of the curve of where they were supposed to be powerwise.\n\nThen a few months later Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep came out. I'd heard some good stuff about the writing, and so I decided to play it. What I found after starting the DLC was that all of my guns, which had been pretty powerful, were now weak. I was barely scrapping by trying to find something better while fighting skeletons.\n\nIt was then that it became apparent to me that I wasn't actually enjoying playing Borderlands 2, or more specifically I wasn't having fun shooting things and collecting loot. Everything was suddenly hard in a way that wasn't fun to try to overcome, because it didn't matter how skilled I was my weapons couldn't do enough damage to actually progress. The game was gateing my progress with loot, loot that because of the Skinner box system wasn't reliable at actually getting me the equipment I needed.\n\n[[Basically here is what a play session of Borderlands 2 is like.|003A]]\n\n

<<silently>>\n<<set $shootPlay+=1>>\n<<endsilently>><<if $shootPlay<=4>>[[Do a mission, shoot some stuff.|004A]]\n<<else if $shootPlay is 5>>[[Go sell some stuff, buy some new stuff.|004B]]<<endif>>

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<<silently>>\n<<set $tryTimes1=0>>\n<<set $shootLoot=0>>\n<<set $shootPlay=0>>\n<<endsilently>>There has been an aspect of modern game design which has over time become really begun to bother me is the use of the Skinner box. Mostly because games have started to use the concept to drive player engagement with the game, rather than their enjoyment of the game's actual gameplay.\n\nMost social games were/are egregiously guilty of this, but so is Borderlands 2. However before I go into that let me explain what the Skinner box technique is.\n\nTo explain it simply it was a device used for experimental analysis of behaviour, specifically in mice. The box had a lever and a food dispenser inside. When the mouse hit the lever the food dispenser would dispense food. After a while the mouse would stop hitting the lever, probably because it would become full.\n\nAfter some more experimentation they discovered that if the food dispenser randomly dispensed food when the lever was hit that the mouse was more likely to continue to hit the lever.\n\nYou can look at it look randomly dispensed food experiment like a slot machine. You pull the lever and randomly you receive something.\n\nWith games it's a bit more disguised. In Borderlands 1 and 2 there you pull the lever of that slot machine every time you kill an enemy, or open a chest. Except in these cases it's not whether or not you'll receive something (because you'll always get something,) but it's whether or not that something is actually useful to your character or better than what you already have.\n\n[[Here's an example|001]]

<<silently>>\n<<set $tryTimes1 += 1>>\n<<endsilently>><<randomp 30 "You found nothing." 40 "You found a weak item." 15 "You found a normal item." 10 "You found a strong item." 4 "You found an epic item!" 1 "You found a LEGENDARY ITEM!">>\n[[Click Again?|001]]\n<<if $tryTimes1>8 >>[[But seriously you can stop now.|002]]\n<<else if $tryTimes1>3>>[[Ok I get it.|002]]<<endif>>

[[Repeat.|003E]]

The Trouble with Skinner boxes: From Borderlands' problems to Destiny's solution.

Again this is being a bit reductionist, but that's essentially it. \n\nEverything in the game is driven by looting, and I think that because of that it sort of hid a lot of the problems with the shooting and action bits of the game. Which are the ones that should be fun, and should be what is driving the player forward. Because they want to play the game, that's why it's called gameplay.\n\nWhich is one of the reasons I'm really excited for Destiny, because after playing the alpha it seems that they might have solved all the issues Borderlands has.\n\nThey did this by scaling back the loot a lot. And most of it isn't even equipment, but stuff you just sell to make money. Occasionally you'll find a weapon or piece of armor, and sometimes that'll be better than what you have, but that doesn't really matter.\n\nIt doesn't because: 1) When you go to the shops you can just buy the right gear for your level (although the stuff you get from drops will likely be better.) And 2) you don't really want to spend time dealing with your loot because I want to go back to actually playing the game, because running around doing stuff is actually fun.\n\n[[Basically here is what a play session of Destiny is like.|004A]]

D. Michael Moore

[[Repeat|004C]]

This is at least how Destiny played during the alpha, and I hope that's how it continues to play, because clearly the focus of the game is actually having you play it. The loot is just a side thing to incrementally improve your character over time, and also make them look cooler.\n\nIt also seems to be the case that if you fight something that's a few levels stronger then you, you might be able to actually overcome it with skill even if you equipment and character aren't even with the enemy's.\n\nWhat I'm getting at with all of this is that people have been using the Skinner box without actually realizing how it affects their game, or how it might continue to drive engagement from the player when the parts of the game that are supposed to be fun aren't doing that. \n\nIt shouldn't be used as a crutch, and designers should be aware that they might be using it as one without realizing it.

<<silently>>\n<<set $shootLoot+=1>>\n<<endsilently>><<if $shootLoot<=4>>[[Shoot and loot.|003A]]\n<<else if $shootLoot is 5>>[[Sell loot.|003B]]\n<<else if $shootLoot >5>><<if $shootLoot<=9>>[[Shoot and loot.|003A]]\n<<else if $shootLoot is 10>>[[Sell loot.|003B]]\n<<else if $shootLoot >= 10 >><<if $shootLoot <=12>>[[Shoot and loot.|003A]]\n<<else if $shootLoot is 13>>[[Loot chest.|003C]]<<endif>><<endif>>\n<<endif>>

[[Find one better gun.|003D]]

<<if $shootLoot is 5>>Sell extra items for money. Items in shop weaker than what you have.\n[[Shoot and loot.|003A]]\n<<else if $shootLoot is 10>>Sell extra items for money. Useful items in shop only usable by different class.\n[[Shoot and loot.|003A]]<<endif>>